Q&A with Jimmy Wales
Q&A with Jimmy Wales Sep 12, 2005
00:00:22 THIS WEEK ON Q & A. OUR GUEST IS JIMMY WHALES, THE FOUNDER OF AN ENCYCLOPEDIA FOUND IN MEMBERSHIP LANGUAGES THAT ANYONE CAN EDIT.
00:00:35 WHAT IS WICKAPEEDIA?
00:00:38 A FREELY LICENSED ENCYCLOPEDIA, WRITTEN BY THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS ON THE INTERNET IN OVER A HUNDRED LANGUAGES. AND IT'S ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING WEBSITES.
00:00:50 WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA.
00:00:53 BASICALLY FROM WATCHING THE GROWTH OF THE FREE SOFTWARE MOVEMENT. SO ALL THE SOFTWARE THAT RUNS THE INTERNET.
00:01:01 WEB-SERVING SOFTWARE. IT'S ALL WRITTEN BY VOLUNTEERS COLLABORATIVELY, USING FREE LICENSES AND IT'S REALLY GOOD-QUALITY STUFF. I REALIZED THE PRINCIPLE OF COLLABORATION ON THE INTERNET WHICH STARTED WITH SOFTWARE COULD BE EXPANDED TO OTHER TYPES OF AREAS.
00:01:22 WHAT DOES WICAPEEDIA STAND FOR?
00:01:30 WICKIE IS A HAWAIIAN WORD MEANING QUICK. IT'S A SOFTWARE THAT'S REALLY EASY TO EDIT AND THAT TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 1995. I JUST INVENTED A USE FOR IT. WICKIEPEEDIA. SO WICKIEENCYCLOPEDIA. IT STARTED IN JANUARY OF 2001.
00:01:50 WHERE?
00:01:53 ON THE INTERNET. AT THE TIME I WAS LIVING CALIFORNIA. WE STARTED IN ENGLISH AND THEN WITHIN A COUPLE MONTHS, WE HAD FRENCH AND GERMAN AND JAPANESE AND SINCE THEN, WE JUST KEEP ADDING LANGUAGING. SO NOW THERE ARE 62 LANGUAGES THAT HAVE AT LEAST A THOUSAND ARTICLES. SO WE'RE STARTING TO GROW IN A LOT OF FAIRLY SMALL LANGUAGES WHICH IS REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE.
00:02:19 HOW DOES -- WELL, LET'S JUST TAKE OUR OWN NETWORK HERE, C-SPAN. HOW DOES C-SPAN MAKE ITS WAY INTO YOUR WICKIPEEDIA.
00:02:32 I'M SURE C C-SPAN HAS AN ARTICLE ABOUT T. ANYONE WHO SIGHS -- IF SOMEONE MENTIONS C-SPAN AND SAYS THERE SHOULD BE AN ARTICLE, THEY'LL PUT BRACKETS AROUND THE TEXT THEY'RE WRITING.
00:02:44 IT SHOWS UP AS A RED LINK AND THEY KNOW THERE'S NO ARTICLE YET AND THEY CLICK THERE AND THEY CAN START WRITING. AS PEOPLE ARE WRITING THE ARTICLE AND SAVING IT, EVERY CHANGE GOES TO THE RECENT SAVED CHANGES. ONE OF THE MISCONCEPTIONS IS PEOPLE IMAGINE IT'S SOMETHING LIKE ONE MILLION PEOPLE, EACH ADDING ONE SENTENCE EACH AND SOMEHOW MIRACULOUSLY, IT BECOMES SOMETHING USEFUL. BUT WHAT ACTUALLY MAKES IT WORK IS THE COMMUNITY. THERE'S A REALLY SPRONG COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE BEHIND THE SITE AND THEY'RE IN CONSTANT COMMUNICATION BY E-MAIL AND CHAT ROOMS SO THEY'RE MONITORING ALL THE CHANGES GOING THROUGH THE SITE MONITORING IT AND TRYING TO SEE IF IT'S GOOD OR NOT.
00:03:32 AS I WAS DOING WICKIPEEDIA TO DO THIS INTRIEWRKS I KEPT THINKING WHEN WILL GOOGLE OR YAHOO PUT JIMMY WHALES OUT OF BUSINESS. BUT YOU'RE IN BUSINESS WITH THEM.
00:03:44 WE'RE A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT I FOUNDD AND WE'VE GOTTEN SUPPORT FROM YAHOO ALREADY AND GOOGLE'S VERY INTERESTED IN SUSPECTING US.
00:03:53 WE'RE STILL TALKING TO THEM ABOUT WHAT TO DO AND YAHOO'S DONATE SOMEDAY SERVERS AND I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THAT IS IT'S ALMOST A JOKE BUT IT'S COMPLETELY TRUE. IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHY DO YAHOO AND GOOGLE WANT TO DO THIS. THEIR BUSINESS MODEL DEPENDS ON THE INTERNET NOT SUCKING AND WE HOPE THE INTERNET DOESN'T SUCK.
00:04:24 SO WICKAPEEDIA GOES BACK TO WHAT WE ALL THOUGHT THE INTERNET WAS FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. WHEN MOST PEOPLE FIRST HEARD OF THE INTERNET THEY THOUGHT OH, THIS IS FANTASTIC. PEOPLE CAN COMMUNICATE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND BUILD KNOWLEDGE AND SHARE INFORMATION AND THEN WE WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE.COM BOOM AND BUST AND -- THE WHOLE DOT COM BOOM AND BUST AND THERE WAS POP UP ADS, PORN, SELLING DOG FOOD OVER THE INTERNET. NOW, WICKIPEEDIA COMING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL VISION OF THE INTERNET SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE WHOLE BUSINESS OF THE ENTIRE INTERNET THAT THERE BE QUALITY RESOURCES THAT PEOPLE CAN TURN TO AND WANT TO TURN TO. SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO THESE COMPANIES TO SUPPORT US.
00:05:06 I THINK OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT YOU POP UP ALL THE TIME ON GOOGLE, THE FIRST TIME I REALLY WANTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT IT EXACTLY IS WHEN I SAW SOME ARTICLE AT THAT MOMENT, RATED YOU AS THE 57TH BUSIEST WEBSITE IN THE WORLD. I TRIED TO FIND IT YESTERDAY AND YOU CAN'T GET INTO ALEXA TO DO THIS. HAVE YOU TO PAY PER IT NOW.
00:05:32 OH, NO. YOU CAN CAN CHECK. I THINK WE'RE AROUND 4TH IN THE WORLD. -- 40TH IN THE WORLD. IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF UNIQUE VISITORS WE SEE IN A DAY, COMPARISON TO THE "WASHINGTON POST," U.S.A. TODAY AND THE "TIMES", WE'RE LARGER THAN ALL OF THOSE COMBINED. THAT'S THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WE'RE REACHING GLOBALLY EVERY DAY. IT'S SUBSTANTIAL.
00:06:03 HOW MANY PEOPLE WORK FOR ONE.
00:06:05 WHO'S THAT?
00:06:08 OUR LEAD SOFTWARE DEVELOPER WHO COORDINATES THE RELEASES OF THE SOFTWARE. THE SOFTWARE'S MOSTLY WRITTEN BY VOLUNTEERS.
00:06:16 BUT HE'S OUR C.T.O. AND HE ORGANIZES THE PEOPLE WHO MANAGES THE SERVERS.
00:06:21 WHERE DOES HE LIVE?
00:06:22 LOS ANGELES.
00:06:23 WHERE ARE THE SERVERS AND HOW MANY ARE THERE?
00:06:26 RIGHT NOW, 90 SERVERS. THE BULK ARE IN FLORIDA AT A BIG LOCATION FACILITY THERE. AROUND 20 IN AMSTERDAM, SIX IN PARIS AND COMING ON LINE, VERY SOON ARE -- THERE'S 20 SERVERS IN SOUTH KOREA REPRESENTED BY YAHOO AND THERE'S BETWEEN THE MORE ON ORDER. SO WITHIN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, WE'LL BE AT 150 SERVERS AND THEY'RE REALLY OVERLOADED AT THE MOMENT. SO IT'S REALLY A CHALLENGE GROWING THE TECHNICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. WE'VE GOT A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE WORKING.
00:07:04 HOW OLD ARE YOU?
00:07:07 I'M 39. I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.
00:07:10 HOW CAN YOU AFFORD TO DO THIS NONPROFIT AT THIS STAGE IN YOUR LIFE?
00:07:14 WELL, I MADE ENOUGH MONEY. I USED TO BE AN ADMINISTRATOR AND I'M NOT A WEALTHY PERSON BUT I'M A PERSON WHO LIVES WITHIN MY MEANS. I HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO LIVE AND I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING COOLER TO BE DOING SO THIS IS WHAT I DO. WE GET -- TO RUN THE WEBSITE, OBVIOUSLY, TO BUY ALL THE SERVERS AND PAY WE GET DONATIONS FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC. IN THE U.S. WE'RE A 5 1 (C3) PEOPLE CAN DEDUCT IT ON THEIR TAXES AND IN EUROPE, WE HAVE A FRENCH AND GERMAN CHAPTER AND THEY'RE IN THE PROCESS OF BECOMING TAX EXEMPT THERE BECAUSE WE GET A LOT OF DONATIONS FROM EUROPE AND JAPAN AND ALL OVER THE WORLD. SO FAR, WE'VE HAD VERY GOOD SUCCESS RAISING MONEY. THE FUNDRAISERS THAT WE'VE HAD, WE END UP GOING OVER WHAT WE ASK FOR. WE JUST FINISHED A FUNDRAISER WHERE OUR BASE GOAL WAS 200 $200,000 AND I THINK WE RAISED AROUND $240,000.
00:08:20 SOCIETY OUT POURING FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC HAS BEEN QUITE GOOD.
00:08:25 AND IT DOESN'T COST -- $240,000 A YEAR?
00:08:33 BASICALLY, IT'S OUR BUDGET FOR THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.
00:08:35 WHAT DOES IT COST YOU A YEAR DO YOU THINK?
00:08:37 I THINK THE TOTAL BUDGET FOR THE COMING YEAR WILL BE ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS. THAT'S MY ESTIMATE. THE BUDGET FOR THE PAST YEAR WAS A LOT LESS BUT WE WERE A LOT SMALLER. AS IT KEEPS GROWING, THERE'S MORE COSTS. TO DOUBLE IN SIZE FROM FOUR TO EIGHT ISN'T AS EXPENSIVE AS DOUBLING FROM 60 TO 80. THE AUDIENCE GOES UP AND THE COSTS GOES UP. SO THERE'S A LARGE OF BASE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE TOUCHED BY OUR WORK AND THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.
00:09:10 A COUPLE THINGS. HOW MANY UNIQUE VIEWERS A DAY RIGHT NOW?
00:09:15 I'M NOT ACTUALLY SURE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE SINCE WE DON'T HAVE ANY ADVERTISING ON THE SIDE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY IMMEDIATE NEED TO KNOW THAT NUMBER. THE ONE EMPLOYEE I SAID TO HIM, I REALLY NEED THIS NUMBER. EVERYONE'S ASKING ME. SO HE'S GOING TO GET WITH ME WITH THAT NUMBER SOON.
00:09:36 GIVE ME A BALLPARK.
00:09:41 IN THE MILLIONS. THE NUMBER I KNOW, WE'RE DOING 2 BILLION PAGES SERVED EVERY MONTH. SO THAT'S A LOT OF ENCYCLOPEDIA ARTICLES BEING DELIVERED.
00:09:54 WERE YOUR PARENTS HOME SCHOOLERS? YOUR MOTHER?
00:09:56 NO. ACTUALLY.
00:09:57 SOMEBODY WROTE THAT SOMEWHERE.
00:09:59 NO. YEAH. THAT WAS IN "TIME MAGAZINE". THAT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING. BUT THE STORY IS ACTUALLY INTERESTING. THEY GOT IT A LITTLE BIT WRONG BUT MY MOTHER AND MY GRAND MOTHER HAD A SMALL -- IT'S ACTUALLY MORE IN THE TRADITION OF A ONE-ROOM SCHOOL HOUSE, AB LINCOLN TYPE OF WHERE?
00:10:24 THIS WAS IN HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA. SO NOT HOME SCHOOLING BUT SIMILAR. A VERY UNIQUE EDUCATIONAL UPBRINGING AND IN THE SCHOOL WE HAD -- THERE WERE FOUR CHILDREN IN MY GRADE MOST OF THE TIME AND WE COUPED TOGETHER FIRST THROUGH FOURTH GRADE AND FIFTH THROUGH EIGHTH GRADE AND WHAT'S NICE ABOUT IT AND TIED INTO MY CURRENT WORK IS WE HAD A FAIR AMOUNT OF FREEDOM TO STUDY WHATEVER WE'D LIKE.
00:10:51 MONTESSORI PHILOSOPHY OF EDUCATION AND SO I SPENT MANY, MANY HOURS JUST POURING OVER THE WORLD BOOK ENCYCLOPEDIA. I CALLED MY MOM RECENTLY AND SAID DO YOU HAVE MY OLD WORLD BOOK AND SHE SAID I THINK WE GOT RID OF THOSE. I SAID AH. I COULD HAVE SOLD THOSE ON EBAY. BUT I SPENT HOURS OVER THE WORLD BOOK ENCYCLOPEDIA.
00:11:18 HOW MANY YEARS WERE YOU SCHOOLED?
00:11:21 DID YOUR MOTHER ACTUALLY TEACH YEAH. SOME SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THOSE YEARS. THERE ARE ALSO OTHER TEACHERS AND WHENEVER THERE WAS ANOTHER TEACHER AVAILABLE, THEY TRIED TO HAVE ME UNDER THE OTHER TEACHER.
00:11:34 HAVING YOUR MOM AS YOUR MOM AND YOUR TEACHER IS DIFFICULT AT TIMES BUT IT WAS AN INTERESTING BALANCE, I THINK, WITH HOME SCHOOLING YOU DO GET THE PERSONAL ATTENTION OF A PARENT WHICH IS WONDERFUL BUT YOU ALSO HAVE ALL THESE WONDERFUL QUESTIONS ABOUT SOCIAL INTERACTIONS. SO THIS WAS A VERY NICE BALANCE. YOU'VE GOT A VERY GOOD ENVIRONMENT AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER KIDS THERE AND OTHER TEACHERS.
00:12:05 HOW MANY YOU'RES YEARS WERE YOU IN THAT SCHOOL?
00:12:07 UP TO THE EIGHTH GRADE AND THEN WENT TO A TRADITIONAL COLLEGE PREP HIGH SCHOOL. IT WAS QUITE A SACRIFICE FOR MY PARENTS TO PAY TO GO THERE. THE ONE-ROOM SCHOOL HOUSE BUSINESS DIDN'T PAY VERY WELL BUT THEY FELT THAT EDUCATION WAS IMPORTANT. THAT WAS ALWAYS A PASSION IN LIFE AND MY HOUSEHOLD WAS A VERY TRADITIONAL APPROACH TO KNOWLEDGE AND LEARNING AND ESTABLISHING THAT AS A BASE FOR GOOD LIFE.
00:12:38 ANOTHER THING I READ ABOUT YOU IS THAT YOU ARE A FOLLOWER OR HAVE BEEN AT SOME POINT, A FOLLOWER OF I[INDISCERNIBLE]
00:12:49 RAND. WHO WAS SHE AND DO YOU STILL FOLLOW HER AND WHAT IS IT ABOUT HER THAT YOU LIKE?
00:13:00 I'M -- SHE WROTE INDISDISAND -- [INDISCERNIBLE] AND IS VIEWED AS THE FOUNDER OF THE LIBERTARIAN STRAIN OF THOUGHT IN THE U.S. SHE WOULD HAVE REJECTED QUITE RIGHTLY, THE LIBERTARIAN LABEL BUT I THINK FOR ME, THE CORE THINGS THAT VERY APPLICABLE TO MY LIFE TODAY IS THE VIRTUE OF INDEPENDENCE. THE VISION, YOU KNOW, IF YOU KNOW THE IDEA OF HOWARD ROURKE, WHO'S THE ARCHITECT IN THE FOUNTAIN HAD WHO HAS A VISION FOR WHEN HE WANTS TO ACCOMPLISH AND THERE'S SOME TIME IN THE BOOK WHEN HE TRADED IN HIS CAREER BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO BUILD THE TYPE OF BUILDINGS HE WANTS TO BUILD AND HE'S GIVEN A DIFFICULT CHOICE TO COMPROMISE HIS INTEGRITY OR TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS AND HE HAS TO GO AND TAKE A JOB AND FOR ME, THAT MODEL HAS A LOT OF REZ RES RESONANCE FOR ME. WHEN I THINK OF WHAT I'M DOING IN THE WAY I'M DOING IT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT'S MY ARTISTIC WORK.
00:14:14 WHAT YEAR DID YOU READ FOUNTAIN HAD?
00:14:20 - FOUNTAIN HEAD.
00:14:23 I WAS AT AUBURN UNIVERSITY.
00:14:25 AUBURN AND INDIANA UNIVERSITY ARE IN YOUR PAST. ANY OTHERS?
00:14:28 UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA.
00:14:30 WHAT DID YOU DO AT ALL THREE OF THOSE PLACES?
00:14:35 AT AUBURN UNIVERSITY, I WAS AN UNDER GRADUATE IN FINANCE AND AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PAM ALABAMA I WAS IN THE PHD PROGRAM AND LEFT WITH A MASTER'S PROGRAM IN FINANCE WHEN I WENT TO INDIANA.
00:14:51 SO I DID TWO DIFFERENT P.H.D.
00:14:53 PROGRAMS IN FINANCE. ALL THE COURSE WORK BUT I NEVER FINISHED THE PHD. I LEFT TO GO TO CHICAGO TO BE A TRADER. IF I GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT NOW, I REALIZE I USED TO BE PRETTY SMART. BUT IT'S VERY INTENSELY MATHEMATICAL.
00:15:22 WHAT YEARS DID YOU MAKE YOUR MONEY?
00:15:25 1994 TO 2000, I'D SAY. I WAS DOING TRADING.
00:15:28 SO LATE 20'S, EARLY 30'S?
00:15:29 YEAH.
00:15:31 YOU DIDN'T TELL US WHAT YO OO YOU TOLD US WHAT YOU ARE MOTHER AND GRANDMOTHER DID. WHAT ABOUT YOUR FATHER?
00:15:37 MY FATHER, WHEN I WAS GROWING UP, THE WHOLE TIME I WAS GROWING UP, HE WAS A GROCERY STORE MANAGER AND HE'S RETIRED NOW AND THE THING ABOUT MY FATHER IS HE WROTE TO ME -- FINISHED HIS DEGREE, HIS COLLEGE DEGREE AND WENT BACK INTO THE WORK FORCE FOR A LITTLE WHILE BUT NOW HE'S RETIRED. THAT'S THE -- SPIRIT OF LIFELONG LEARNING.
00:16:16 WHEN DID YOU NOTICE AFTER STARTING WITH PEEDIA IN 2001, WHEN DID PEOPLE START PAYING ATTENTION TO YOU IN THE GENERAL PRESS?
00:16:26 YEAH. IT'S INTERESTING THAT, YOU KNOW, NOW WHEN WE START A NEW PROJECT, WE STARTED A NEW PROJECT CALLED WICKIE NEWS AND IT'S YOUNG AND EXPERIMENTAL AND WE GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION BECAUSE OF WICKIE PEEDIA. WITH WICKIE PEED YARKS WE HAD THE LUXURY FOR THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS NOBODY CARED WHAT WE WERE DOING SO WE COULD MAKE MISTAKES AND EXPERIMENT WITH THE MODEL.
00:16:53 I'D SAY THE FIRST REAL NOTICE WE STARTED TO GET WAS RATE EARLY ON. I REMEMBER ON SEPTEMBER 11 WE STARTED IN JANUARY AND SEPTEMBER 11, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" CALLED ME, WHICH SEEMED VERY STRAIMPLG TO ME BUT IT WAS UN-- WAS SEEMED VERY STRANGE TO ME. I SAID WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME TODAY. AND IT WAS THE TECHNOLOGY EDITOR. HE SAID THERE'S NOTHING. WE JUST HAVE TO PUT OUT THE PAPER. THAT WAS THE FIRST MAIRMG NEWS ARTICLE. BUT EVEN THEN, IT WAS SORT OF TRICKLING FOR A WHILE. BUT NOW IT'S BECOME -- WE GET A LOT OF ATTENTION EVERYONE.
00:17:31 I MENTIONED THE "TIME MAGAZINE" ARTICLE GOT IT WRONG ON YOUR HOME SCHOOLING AND ALSO GOT IT WRONG DURING THE KERRY-BUSH CAMPAIGN OF YOUR SOFTWARE'S FREEZING. EXPLAIN THAT.
00:17:45 RIGHT. YEAH WANT SO ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT WICKYPEEDIA, YOU NATURALLY ASSUME ON CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS THAT THE BIG DEBATES WITH THEM, THE WICKIE PEEDIA COMMUNITY WILL BE ROUGHLY THE PARTY OF THE LEFT VERSUS THE PARTY OF THE RIGHT.
00:18:03 IT TURNS OUT ON THOSE TYPES OF TOPICS, IT'S ACTUALLY THE PARTY OF THE THOUGHTFUL AND REASONABLE PEOPLE AND THE PARTY OF THE JERKS AND THOSE AREN'T LEFT OVER. THEY COME FROM ALL SIDES, YOU'VE GOT JERKS. SO WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, THERE'S NEVER BEEN REALLY ANY CONTROVERSY ABOUT THE GEORGE BUSH -- EXCEPT THE GEORGE BUSH ARTICLE. OF COURSE THERE ARE EDITORIAL DISPUTES OVER HOW TO WORD THINGS BUT THERE'S NO REAL FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION THAT THE ARTICLE SHOULD BE COMPREHENSIVE, FACTUAL SOURCE.
00:18:40 IT SHOULDN'T BE A ONE-SIDED POLITICAL RANT ON ONE SIDE. IT SHOULD DISCUSS CRITICISMS OF THE PRESIDENT AND SUPPORT OF THE PRESIDENT. AND SO THE ARTICLE IS ALWAYS IN THE COMMUNITY BUT THERE ARE IMSOMEWHATS, VANDALS.
00:18:57 PEOPLE COME IN AND THINK IT'S FUNNY TO POST DISGUSTING PICTURES OR SOMETHING, REPLACE BUSH'S PICTURE WITH A PICTURE OF HITLER. WE REVERSE THAT WITHIN A MINUTE.
00:19:06 WHO'S WE?
00:19:08 THE COMMUNITY.
00:19:10 YOU MEAN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO DOES THAT?
00:19:13 WELL, I MEAN, I COULD LOOK IT UP. YOU CAN -- ON THE SITE, PART OF THE REASON THE SITE WORKS IS YOU CAN BE ANONYMOUS, BUT THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY HAVE A CONSISTENT IDENTITY. SO THERE'S ACCOUNTABILITY. SO PEOPLE GAIN REPUTATIONS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY FOR DOING WORK. YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE ARTICLE AND SEE WHO'S VANDALING AND EVEN ORDINARY REASONABLE PEOPLE WHO INTENSELY DISLIKE THE PRESIDENT WILL AGREE THAT AN ENCYCLOPEDIA ARTICLE SHOULDN'T REPLACE A PICTURE WITH HITLER.
00:19:50 SO WE ALWAYS HAVE TO LOCK ARTICLES FROM TIME TO TIME WHEN THEY'RE UNDER A PARTICULAR ATTACK BUT THE -- WHO DOES THAT?
00:19:59 THE ADMINISTRATORS, THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. SO WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, PEOPLE CAN BE ELECTED AND THEY CAN BLOCK I.P. NUMBERS. SO IF SOMEONE'S CAUSING TROUBLE, WE CAN BLOCK IT WE HAD TO LOCK THE ARTICLE FOR LESS THAN 2% OF THE TIME. THE BUSH AND KERRY ARTICLES WERE BLOCKED LESS THAN 2% OF THE TIME DURING 1994. SO WHAT "TIME" HAD REPORTED IS THAT WAILS HAD TO LOCK THE ARTICLE FOR MOST OF 2004. THAT WAS MISTAKEN. WE DID NOT LOCK THE ARTICLE FOR MOST OF 2004 AND THE ARTICLE GAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT I PERSONALLY HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT.
00:20:41 WHY DID YOU NAIK THIS NONPROFIT AND NOT FOR PROFIT?
00:20:48 WELL, FROM VERY EARLY ON WHEN WE STARTED IT, I CONCEIVED, YOU KNOW, 2001, IT WAS KIND OF STILL THE TAIL END OF THE DOT COM ERA AND I WANTED TO TRY SOMETHING AND I THOUGHT AT THE TIME IT COULD BE FOR PROFIT OF THE BUT ONCE WE STARTED BUILDING THE COMMUNITY AND I GAVE IT MORE THOUGHT, IT REALLY MADE MORE SENSE. IT'S NEUTRAL, EDUCATIONAL, VOLUNTEER EFFORT.
00:21:14 PEOPLE HAVE AMONG THE MOTIVATION, AND THIS IS WHAT REALLY DRIVES ME, IS THE IDEA THERE'S HUGE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD OF IGNORANCE AND IGNORANCE CAUSES WAR, TERRORISM, POVERTY AND SO THIS CHARITABLE MISSION OF SAYING LET'S GIVE A FREELY LICENSED ENCYCLOPEDIA TO EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET REALLY CAPT VATS PEOPLE AND THAT REALLY MAKES MORE SENSE TO DO IN A NONPROFIT FRAMEWORK. THE VOLUNTEERS WANTED IT THAT WAY.
00:21:47 SO I JUST SAID, WELL, LET'S DO THAT.
00:21:51 BUT YOU NOW HAVE OTHER YES.
00:21:54 EXPLAIN THAT AND WHAT KIND ARE YOU PUTTING TOGETHER?
00:22:02 ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THE BOARD OF THE FOUNDATION AND SHE AND I FOUND THE COMPANY, WICKIE CITY. WE'RE USING THE SAME TECHNOLOGY BUT IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY REALLY, IT'S ABOUT THE SOCIAL STRUCTURE AND THE SOCIAL MODEL OF BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER. HOW TO BUILD A COMMUNITY OF THOUGHTFUL PEOPLE WHO CAN DO SOMETHING GOOD. THERE'S LOTS OF COMMUNITIES ON THE INTERNET THAT ARE THOUGHT HEALTHY. THEY'RE ARGUMENTS IN DIFFICULT ENVIRONMENTS BUT WE TRY TO BUILD A HEALTHY FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENT TO SAY LET'S ALL WORK TOGETHER TOGETHER TO DO SOMETHING USEFUL.
00:22:34 BUT THE IDEA IS THERE'S LOTS OF TYPES OF THINGS PEOPLE WANT TO DO THAT DON'T FIT UNDER THE RUBRIC OF THE NONPROFIT EDUCATIONAL MISSION. SO FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE SOME OF THE EARLY SUCCESSFUL SITES WOULD BE THE -- WE HAVE A STAR WARS SITE WHERE PEOPLE ARE DOCUMENTING THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE SERIES AND DOING COMMUNITY PAGES TO DISCUSS THE PHILOSOPHY OR THE THEORIES OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
00:23:03 HOW DO YOU MAKE MONEY THEN?
00:23:05 THAT HAS ADVERTISING ON IT SO THAT'S ADVERTISEMENT SUPPORTED.
00:23:08 AND HOW BIG A OPERATION DO YOU HAVE ON THE SIDE LIKE THESE FOUR NONPROFIT COMPANIES YOU PUT TOGETHER.
00:23:15 IT'S STILL VERY SMALL SO WE'RE FINISHING AROUND RAISING SOME INVESTMENT LINE TO BUY MORE SERVERS. IN A FOR-PROFIT CONTEXT, THIS IS THE OTHER REASON BEING IN A NONPROFIT MADE SENSE, IN THE NONPROFIT RIGHT NOW, FOR WICKIE PEED YARKS THE SERVERS AREN'T RUNNING AND I'M NOT WATCHING THEM AND BRIAN IS PROBABLY NOT WATCHING THEM BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE DOZEN SYSTEM ADMINISTRATORS WHO VOLUNTARILY HAVE ROUTE ACCESS TO LOG IN AND THEY MONITOR THE SITE AND IF THE SERVER GOES DOWN, THEY REBOOT.
00:23:49 AND THEY DON'T WORK FOR YOU.
00:23:50 RIGHT. BUT THEY'RE NOT -- THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS IT WAS SO IMPORTANT FOR WICKIE PEEDIA TO BE IN THE NONPROFIT. WE COULDN'T AFFORD A STAFF TO MANAGE A SERVER OF 150 WITHOUT HAVING ADVERTISING ON THE SITE.
00:24:03 SO BEING IN THE NONPROFIT ENABLED US TO DO THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE THEIR TIME TO A NONPROFIT.
00:24:11 THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO VOLUNTEER TO MAKE JIMBO RICH FUND.
00:24:17 AND WHAT'S THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE CALL YOU?
00:24:20 YEAH. THAT'S MY ON LINE NAME.
00:24:22 USUALLY IT DOESN'T END UP IN PRINT.
00:24:25 DO THEY CALL YOU GOD KING?
00:24:26 NOT REALLY.
00:24:27 I SAW THAT SOMEWHERE.
00:24:29 IT'S A MISTAKE THAT GETS REPEATED A LOT. IT'S SUCH A CUTE PHRASE. IN THE IN THE WIKI SUBCULTURE THAT PREDATES WIKIPEDIA, THE IDEA OF THESE WEBSITE THAT ANYBODY CAN EDIT.
00:24:44 SO IT'S OPEN ENDED.
00:24:45 IF THERE'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE WHO USES THEIR POSITION AS OWNER OF THE SERVER TO BE KIND OF A TYRANT, THAT'S CALLED A GOD KING.
00:24:56 IT'S A VERY NEGATIVE CON NOTATION.
00:25:00 PEOPLE DON'T REALLY CALL ME GOD KING WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
00:25:07 BUT IT GETS -- I THINK THEY'RE STARTING TO NOW BECAUSE IT GETS REPEATED IN THE PRESS SO OFTEN.
00:25:13 HOW OFTEN ARE YOU CRITICIZED FOR SETTING UP A NONPROFIT AND HAVING THIS HUGE FOLLOWING AND LITERALLY PEOPLE CAN FIND A WAY TO YOUR FOR PROFITS THROUGH YOUR NONPROFIT?
00:25:24 I'VE NEVER HAD ANY CRITICISM OF THAT.
00:25:27 ONE THING WE DO IS WE HAVE A VERY FIRM WALL.
00:25:31 SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE NONPROFIT THERE ARE NO SPECIAL LINKS TO THE FOR PROFIT SIDE.
00:25:37 THERE'S NO -- AND WE WOULDN'T DO THAT.
00:25:42 IT'S -- FROM AN ETHICAL AND LEGAL POINT OF VIEW IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE THAT WALL.
00:25:47 IT WOULDN'T BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE NONPROFIT TO BE SOMEHOW BENEFITING THE FOR PROFIT.
00:25:53 UNDULY SO.
00:25:56 IN MY ROLL AS THE HEAD OF THE FOUNDATION IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WHATEVER RELATIONSHIPS WE HAVE ARE AT ARM'S LENGTH.
00:26:02 SO THAT'S SOMETHING I TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY, BECAUSE THE INTEGRITY OF WIKIPEDIA AND THE NEUTRALITY IS SO IMPORTANT.
00:26:11 HOW MANY -- I WANT TO GO BACK TO HOW THIS ALL WORKS .
00:26:15 I FOUND OUR OWN REFERENCES ON THERE AND I MUST SAY I FOUND EVERYTHING TO BE ACCURATE.
00:26:20 I WONDER WHAT HAPPENS WHEN EITHER WE DECIDE THAT WE WANT TO ADD A LOT NOW MORE INFORMATION TO THAT OR EVEN PEOPLE WANT TO ADD STUFF THAT'S NOT ACCURATE, HOW LONG DOES IT SIT THERE NOT ACCURATE?
00:26:33 WELL, IN MOST CASES, THE -- FOR CERTAIN TYPES OF VANDALISM THERE HAVE BEEN ACADEMIC STUDIES SHOWING THAT IT'S REPAIRED WITHIN A MEDIAN TIME OF UNDER FIVE MINUTES.
00:26:46 THAT'S SORT OF FAIRLY OBVIOUS VANDALISM.
00:26:48 MORE SUBTLE PROBLEM ARE GOING TO TAKE LONGER FOR PEOPLE TO DEBATE AND EDIT AND FIGURE OUT.
00:26:54 IF YOU WANTED TO ADD MORE INFORMATION ABOUT C-SPAN THAT WOULD BE FINE, BUT YOU WOULD BE EXPECTED TO ADHERE TO OUR SAME NEUTRALITY PRINCIPLE, SO IF -- I MEAN, YOU CAN IMAGINE THERE MUST BE LOTS OF NEUTRAL INFORMATION THAT WOULDN'T BE CONTROVERSIAL THAT YOU CAN ADD MORE ABOUT THE HISTORY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
00:27:13 BUT IF THERE ARE CRITICISMS OF C-SPAN AND YOU WENT INTO THE ARTICLE AND JUST DELETED THEM, IT WOULD BE VERY OBVIOUS.
00:27:19 IT'S EASY TO BE ABLE TO COMPARE AN OLD VERSION TO A NEW VERSION.
00:27:22 ANYBODY WHO'S NOT FAMILIAR COULD SAY, THE WHOLE SECTION OF CRITICISM JUST VANISHED.
00:27:27 WE'RE GOING TO PUT THAT BACK IN THERE.
00:27:30 ON THE OTHER HAND, IT CAN BE PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE.
00:27:33 IF THERE'S -- YOU KNOW, THE EVENT THEY ALWAYS GIVE IS A FICK TISSUEOUS EXAMPLE, SO I DON'T WANT TO IM-- FICTITIOUS EXAMPLE SO I DON'T WANT TO IMPLY ANYTHING.
00:27:47 BUT NIKE, WHO HAS BEEN CRITICIZED FOR THEIR LABOR PRACTICES.
00:27:51 BUT ON THE WEB SIDE THEY HAVE A FULL DEFENSE OF THEIR LABOR PRACTICES.
00:27:54 IF THEY LOOKED AT THE ARTICLE IN WIKIPEDIA AND SAID THIS IS A ONE-SIDED THING, IT DOESN'T SHOW OUR POINT OF VIEW, IT WOULD BE PERFECTLY FINE FOR THEM TO COME IN AND SAY NIKE HAS RESPONDED BY SAYING THIS.
00:28:09 AND THAT'S FINE.
00:28:12 WHAT WOULDN'T BE FINE IS THEY'D DELETE THE CRITICISM.
00:28:15 THEY COULDN'T DO THAT BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY WOULD REACT TO THAT.
00:28:19 PARTICIPATION BRING PEOPLE WRITING ABOUT THEMSELVES IN SOME WAY IS INHERENTLY PROBLEMATIC.
00:28:27 I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BIOGRAPHIES OF THEMSELVES TO REALLY TRY NOT TO EDIT THOSE BIOGRAPHIES.
00:28:33 LEAVE A COMMENT ON THE TALK PAGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
00:28:35 PEOPLE ARE DOING THAT KIND OF THING?
00:28:37 ON OCCASION.
00:28:40 BUT MOST PEOPLE WHO DO SAY -- A FAMOUS AUTHOR MAY SHOW UP AND SAY THERE'S INFORMATION THAT'S NOT HERE THAT SHOULD BE HERE AND THEY ADD IT IN AND IT'S REALLY NO PROBLEM.
00:28:50 IF SOMEBODY IS WATCHING AND SAY I WANT TO BE ON WIKIPEDIA, COULD THEY START?
00:28:55 THEY COULD START BUT THERE'S A WHOLE COMMUNITY PROCESS FOR THE DELETION OF ARTICLES.
00:29:01 WE HAVE SEVERAL RULES THAT CON STRAIN THE SCOPE OF THE ENCYCLOPEDIA.
00:29:05 WHAT ARE THOSE RULES?
00:29:09 ONE RULE, FOR EXAMPLE, IS VERIFYABILITY.
00:29:12 SO IF YOU WANT TO WRITE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE YOU SAY, I WANT TO WRITE ABOUT THE STREET WHERE I LIVE.
00:29:18 THERE'S REALLY NO INFORMATION THAT OTHER WICK PEEDIANS CAN VERIFY ABOUT THE STREAM.
00:29:25 SO WE WOULD HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING IF YOU WERE HOAXING US OR SOMETHING, SO THAT'S ARTICLES CAN'T STAY.
00:29:31 THAT'S ONE IF MOST VIEWERS -- OH, I'M GOING TO WRITE AN ARTICLE ABOUT MYSELF.
00:29:36 IF YOU'RE NOTABLE AND THERE'S PRESS COVERAGE AND PEOPLE CAN VERIFY, THAT WOULD BE FINE.
00:29:40 PROBABLY PREFERABLE THAT YOU DON'T WRITE IT YOURSELF.
00:29:45 THERE'S SOMETHING TO ME ABOUT WRITING ABOUT YOURSELF THAT'S A TILL TACKY.
00:29:50 SOME WOULD SAY, WELL, THAT'S FINE, I'M SURE YOU'RE A WONDERFUL INFORMATION SO THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN CONFIRM YOU'RE NOT JUST MAKING THINGS UP.
00:30:00 THAT'S -- NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH EXPLAIN THAT.
00:30:04 WELL, MOST OF THESE RULES HAVE REALLY A DUAL PURPOSE.
00:30:10 THEY HAVE THE PURPOSE OF -- THE EPIST MONTH LOGICAL PURPOSE OF SAYING THIS IS WHAT AN ENCYCLOPEDIA SHOULD BE LIKE.
00:30:18 THERE'S ALSO A SOCIAL PURPOSE, SOMEHOW THIS HELPS US GET OUR WORK DONE.
00:30:22 THE ORIGINAL RESEARCH, THE ORIGINAL FORMULATION OF THIS CAME ABOUT WHEN WE REALIZED THAT WE WERE GETTING CONTRIBUTIONS FROM PHYSICS CRACK POTS OF WHOM THERE ARE A GREAT MANY ON THE INTERNET, SO PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OWN PERSONAL THEORY OF MAGNETISM THAT THEY MADE UP AND THEY WANT TO WRITE ABOUT IT IN WIKIPEDIA.
00:30:42 THIS IS OBVIOUSLY INAPPROPRIATE BECAUSE WHEREAS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA WE'RE NOT PEER REVIEWED ACADEMIC JOURNAL.
00:30:50 WE'RE NOT QUALIFIED TO REVIEW NEW RESEARCH.
00:30:53 THIS IS ALSO TRUE IN HISTORY.
00:30:56 SOMEBODY HAS A NEW THEORY OF HISTORY, THEY NEED TO GET IT PUBLISHED IN A REAL PLACE.
00:31:01 WE'RE NOT QUALIFIED TO EVALUATE THAT.
00:31:03 WE'RE QUALIFIED TO LOOK AT THE SOURCES AND SAY THIS IS PUBLISHED IN THE JOURNAL OF HISTORY, WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT BUT NEW RESEARCH CAN'T BE DONE.
00:31:10 FROM THE POINT OF VIEW THAT IT'S THE RIGHT THING FOR AN ENCYCLOPEDIA TO DO, BUT SOCIALLY IT'S EASIER TO TELL SOMEONE, I STILL THINK YOU'RE A LUNATIC AND YOUR THEORY OF MAGNETISM IS NONSENSE.
00:31:26 THAT'S HARD FOR PEOPLE TO HEAR.
00:31:28 BUT IF THEY CAN SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUBMISSION, UNFORTUNATELY WE CAN'T DO ORIGINAL RESEARCH, PLEASE GET IT PUBLISHED SOMEWHERE.
00:31:36 THEN YOU CAN TREAT PEOPLE WITH RESPECT.
00:31:38 SOMEBODY IN THE COMMUNITY WHOM YOU PROBABLY DON'T KNOW WILL TELL THAT PERSON WE'RE NOT READY FOR YOU, YOU'RE OUT.
00:31:44 YEAH.
00:31:45 WHAT IF THE PERSON MUST APPEAL THAT?
00:31:48 WELL, WITHIN THE COMMUNITY THERE ARE VARIOUS SOCIAL PROCESSES, SO WE HAVE -- FROM THE DELETION THERE'S A PAGE -- IT USED TO CALL VOTES FOR DELETION BUT THEY CHANGED THE NAME OF IT THE OTHER DAY, SO THAT'S SORT OF IN FLUX, BUT CHANGING THE PROCESS.
00:32:05 THERE'S THE DELETION PROCESS.
00:32:08 AND THEN IF IT GOES BEYOND THAT THERE'S AN ARBITRATION COMMITTEE THAT'S PARTLY ELECTED, PARTLY APPOINTED BY ME WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, WHICH BASICALLY TRIES MOSTLY TO DEAL WITH BEHAVIORAL ISSUES TO SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T CONTINUE REPEATEDLY DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER.
00:32:26 THAT'S ANNOYING THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE EVENTUALLY YOU JUST -- YOU HAVE TO STOP.
00:32:30 WE HAVE WORK TO DO.
00:32:32 SO -- AND THEN ULTIMATELY BEYOND THAT THEY COULD APPEAL TO ME BUT THAT'S VERY RARE.
00:32:37 IT HASN'T HAPPENED.
00:32:39 YOU'RE THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY?
00:32:40 YEAH.
00:32:42 IN THE END YOU CAN CHANGE THINGS IF YOU WANT?
00:32:46 YEAH, YEAH AND THAT'S AN INTERESTING ROLL BECAUSE THE WAY I LIKE TO -- ROLE BECAUSE THE WAY I LIKE TO EXPLAIN IT, A GROUP OF VOLUNTEERS RUNNING SOFTWARE, THERE'S A LONG TRADITION IN THAT WORLD OF HAVING A BENEVOLENT DICTATOR.
00:33:02 THIS ISN'T BECAUSE PROGRAMMERS LOVE TYRANNY OR ANYTHING LIKE THIS.
00:33:06 IT'S JUST WHEN YOU HAVE A SMALL GROUP OF VOLUNTEERS TRYING TO GET WORK DONE, YOU DON'T WANT TO GET INTO A WHOLE SYSTEM OF VOTING THAT GOES INTO EVERY CHANGE OF THE PROGRAM.
00:33:14 IT SEEMS TO BE A VIABLE MODEL TO HAVE A TRUSTED PERSON WHO LISTENS.
00:33:18 YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT PERSONNEL TO LISTEN TO THE DIFFERENT SIDES ABOUT WHAT SHOULD BE IN THE PROGRAM AND MAKE A DECISION AND EVERYBODY CAN SAY, WELL, OK, YOU KNOW, AND -- IN THE LENNOX -- LINUX AND HE DECIDES.
00:33:36 IF THERE'S A CONFLICT, HE DECIDES.
00:33:39 HOW MANY MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW PERSONALLY?
00:33:41 SEVERAL HUNDRED.
00:33:44 EUROPE MOSTLY.
00:33:46 I'M IN EUROPE ABOUT HALF THE TIME AND I TRAVEL ALL OVER THE U.S.
00:33:49 ARE THERE PEOPLE IN EUROPE, ENGLISH SPEAKING, WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THE -- DEFINING THINGS THAT ARE AMERICAN?
00:33:57 I'M SORRY.
00:33:59 TAKE IT BACK TO C-SPAN.
00:34:02 PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIVE IN, SAY, GERMANY THAT WOULD ADD INFORMATION ABOUT BACKGROUND ON OUR NECKWORK?
00:34:10 OH, YEAH, THAT'S VERY -- NETWORK.
00:34:14 OH, YEAH.
00:34:16 THAT'S VERY COMMON.
00:34:17 THERE'S NO NATIONAL COMPONENT TO IT.
00:34:20 WHAT YEAR DID YOU GIVE UP OPTIONS TRADING?
00:34:25 I GUESS 2000-ISH, I GUESS IS THE LAST TIME I -- YOU WERE LIVING WHERE THEN?
00:34:29 FLORIDA.
00:34:30 WHERE?
00:34:33 ST. PETERSBURG. JUNIOR YOU MARRIED SOMETIME ALONG THIS WAY?
00:34:35 YEAH.
00:34:37 WHO DID YOU MARRY?
00:34:39 MY WIFE IS CHRISTINE.
00:34:41 YOU'RE GOING TO GET ME IN TROUBLE ON NATIONAL TELEVISION BECAUSE I HAVE SUCH A BAD MEMORY.
00:34:45 WE'VE BEEN MARRIED SEVEN YEARS.
00:34:47 WE CAN DO THE MATH.
00:34:50 WHERE'D YOU MEET HERE?
00:34:52 IN CHICAGO.
00:34:53 SHE'S HALF JAPANESE AND WAS WORKING FOR A JAPANESE STEEL COMPANY SELLING STEEL AND WE MET.
00:35:02 DOES SHE GET INTO THE COMMUTER -- COMPUTER STUFF WITH YOU?
00:35:06 NOT SO MUCH.
00:35:08 WE HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO'S 4 1/2.
00:35:11 SHE STAYS HOME AND CARES FOR KERRA.
00:35:14 KERRA IS REALLY, REALLY, REALLY SMART, SO IT'S A VERY FULL-TIME JOB TALKING TO HER.
00:35:22 SHE'S INTO THIS ALREADY?
00:35:24 SHE THINKS IT'S FUN -- SHE DOESN'T WRITE OR ANYTHING WITH WIKIPEDIA, BUT -- SHE'S TOO YOUNG FOR THAT BUT SHE LIKES TO TALK ABOUT WIKIPEDIA.
00:35:34 WHAT DO YOU WANT TO HAPPEN WITH ALL THIS?
00:35:36 I ACTUALLY WANT TO GO BACK TO ONE THING THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
00:35:39 SURE.
00:35:42 I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE BENEVOLENT DICTATOR MODEL.
00:35:44 I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THAT'S OUR MODEL. I DON'T FEEL IT'S APPROPRIATE OF ANY ONE PERSON TO BE THE DICTATOR OF ALL HUMAN KNOWLEDGE.
00:35:54 WE'RE MOVING FROM THAT MODEL WHICH WAS NECESSARY WHEN WE HAD A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE, TO THE MODEL OF I MAKE THE COMPARISON THE BRITISH MONARCHY, THAT MY POWER SHOULD DECREASE OVER TIME AND BECOME MORE SYMBOLIC.
00:36:07 MY JOB IS TO DEFEND THE COMMUNITY, NOT RULE OVER THE COMMUNITY.
00:36:10 THAT IS ONE THING I WANTED TO THROW?
00:36:13 YOU HAD OTHER RULES THAT WE DIDN'T GO OVER -- THROW IN.
00:36:17 YOU HAD A LOT OF OTHER RULES WE DIDN'T GO OVER.
00:36:21 NO PERSONAL ATTACKS, THAT'S A RULE THAT'S SERVED US VERY, VERY WELL.
00:36:26 A LOT OF INTERNET COMMUNITIES ARE QUITE HOSTILE AND ROUGH.
00:36:31 I THINK ALMOST EVERYBODY'S HAD THE EXPERIENCE OF SIGNING UP FOR A MAILING LIST THAT SOUNDED INTERESTING AND REALIZING THAT IT'S DOMINATED BY PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO SCREAM AT EACH OTHER.
00:36:42 WE TRY TO MAKE WIKIPEDIA A SAFE SPACE FOR THE BROAD MIDDLE REASONABLE THOUGHTFUL PEOPLE.
00:36:47 AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE SUCCESSFUL ON CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS IS WE REALLY DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM, YOU KNOW, COMPETITIVE ARGUMENTS AND WE TRY TO SAY WE SHOULD BE COOPERATING AND TRYING TO FIND COMMON GROUND.
00:37:02 IT'S VERY SUCCESSFUL.
00:37:04 I DON'T MEAN TO PAINT IT AS A UE TOMORROW YA, OBVIOUSLY.
00:37:08 IT'S A HUMAN PROJECT WITH A LOT OF INTERNAL SQUABLING AND SO FORTH.
00:37:12 BUT ON AVERAGE I THINK WE'VE ACHIEVED SOMETHING IN THE COMMUNITY IN TERMS OF GETTING TOGETHER THOUGHTFUL PEOPLE FROM A BROAD SPECTRUM OF POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS AND DIFFERENT IDEOLOGICAL BACKGROUNDS.
00:37:24 WE'RE STILL WILLING TO GIVE SOME SPACE FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
00:37:28 WHO SETS THE RULES?
00:37:29 SOME OF THE CORE RULES HAVE BEEN SET BY ME FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.
00:37:35 ANY TRALITY POLICY THAT -- NEUTRALITY POLICY THAT WIKIPEDIA SHOULDN'T TAKE A STAND ON ISSUES, JUST REPORT ON THEM.
00:37:45 THAT WIKIPEDIA IS A ENCYCLOPEDIA AS OPPOSED TO A JOKE BOOK OR A COM PEND YUM OF RANDOM FACTS.
00:37:53 THE DAY-TO-DAY RULES OF THE COMMUNITY ARE SET BY THE COMMUNITY, THROUGH A PROCESS THAT NO ONE REALLY UNDERSTANDS.
00:38:00 IT'S QUITE COMPLICATED.
00:38:04 IT'S A PROCESS OF DISCUSSION, DEBATE, CONSENSUS.
00:38:08 SOME VOTING.
00:38:09 SOME ARISTOCRACY.
00:38:11 PEOPLE WHO ARE WELL RESPECTED IN THE COMMUNITY CAN MAKE DECISIONS AND THEY'LL BE RESPECTED.
00:38:16 IT'S QUITE A CONFUSING MIX.
00:38:17 GO BACK.
00:38:20 LET'S SAY -- THE C-SPAN STUFF AGAIN.
00:38:22 LET'S SAY THERE'S A PERSONAL ATTACK IN THERE AND THAT THERE'S NEW INFORMATION, NEW RESEARCH WHICH VIOLATES YOUR RULES AND NOBODY SEIZE IT.
00:38:30 DOES IT -- CEASE IT.
00:38:31 DOES IT JUST SIT THERE?
00:38:34 IT COULD JUST SIT THERE UNTIL SOMEBODY SEES IT.
00:38:38 SAY SOMEONE ON OUR NETWORK SAW THIS.
00:38:40 CAN THEY BE A PART OF TAKING IT OUT?
00:38:43 OH, SURE.
00:38:44 EVERY ARTICLE HAS AN ASSOCIATED DISCUSSION PAGE.
00:38:47 YOU CAN GO TO THE TALK PAGE AND POST A NOTICE THERE.
00:38:50 THEN ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS ABOUT THE WAY THE SOFTWARE WORKS IS THAT ALL CHANGES GO TO THE RECENT CHANGE PAGE BUT PEOPLE HAVE THEIR PERSONAL WATCH LIST.
00:39:02 IF SOMEBODY EDITS THE C-SPAN ARTICLE THEY CAN ADD IT TO THEIR PERSONAL WATCH LIST.
00:39:12 WHAT HAPPENED IS WHOEVER WROTE THE ARTICLE ORIGINALLY WOULD BE NOTIFIED.
00:39:18 IF SOMEBODY PUTS SOMETHING IN AN ARTICLE, TYPICALLY THERE WILL BE LOTS OF PEOPLE NOTIFIED AND COME AND LOOK AT IT.
00:39:25 SOME THINGS COULD SLIP THROUGH THE CRACK.
00:39:27 SOMETIMES THEY DO.
00:39:28 I'M ALWAYS VERY INTERESTED IN STUDYING HOW IT HAPPENS.
00:39:31 IF I LOOK IN AN ARTICLE AND I SEE -- USUALLY IT'S SOMETHING VERY MINOR LIKE HI, MOM.
00:39:39 SOMEBODY WRITES HI, MOM AT THE END OF THE ARTICLE.
00:39:43 I GO IN AND SAY, GEE, THIS HI, MOM HAS BEEN IN THERE FOR SEVEN DAYS.
00:39:48 WHAT HAPPENED.
00:39:49 WHY IS THIS NOT ON SOMEBODY'S WATCH LIST OR WHATEVER.
00:39:52 WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WAYS TO IMPROVE.
00:39:55 STATISTIC FOUND ON JANUARY, 2005.
00:40:00 13,000 EDITORS EDIT FIVE EDITS ON AVERAGE A MONTH.
00:40:02 YEAH.
00:40:06 THERE ARE 3,000 EDITORS, 3,000 PEOPLE IN YOUR COMMUNITY HAVE 100 EDITS A MONTH.
00:40:12 ABSOLUTELY.
00:40:13 IF YOU BOIL IT DOWN FARTHER -- AI BEEN HOPING TO GET THE PEOPLE WHO COMPILE THE STATISTICS TO GET ME THE NEXT NARROWER GROUP.
00:40:23 THERE ARE -- I GOOD SOME RESEARCH MYSELF INTO WHO'S EDITTING WIKIPEDIA, BECAUSE THERE IS THIS -- THERE ARE TWO MODELS THAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT HOW WIKIPEDIA WORKS.
00:40:33 THERE'S THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE EACH DOING A LITTLE BIT OF WORK AND THEN THERE'S THE CORE COMMUNITY VIEW THAT SAYS THE WORK IS BEING DONE BY THE CORE COMMUNITY.
00:40:42 THE STATISTICS WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT SHOW THE CORE COMMUNITY IS DOING BY FAR THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE WORK. SO WITH -- FOR FREE?
00:40:49 FOR FREE, YEAH.
00:40:50 THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THOUSANDS OF EDITS A MONTH.
00:40:53 I WANT TO STOP YOU THERE AND ASK YOU ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE.
00:40:55 YOU KNOW THEM.
00:40:56 UH-HUH.
00:40:58 J WHY DO THEY DO IT?
00:41:01 GIVE US A PROFILE OF SOMEBODY YOU KNOW AND HOW MUCH THEY'RE INVOLVED IN ALL THIS.
00:41:05 WELL, I THINK THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE.
00:41:09 SO IT'S HARD TO BOIL IT DOWN TO ANY ONE BUT A TYPICAL TYPE OF PERSON IS REALLY SMART, REALLY FRIENDLY.
00:41:17 BECAUSE IF YOU'RE NOT FRIENDLY YOU HAVE A HARD TIME IN WIKIPEDIA, BECAUSE IT'S A SOCIAL PROCESS.
00:41:22 SO HAVING SOCIAL SKILLS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
00:41:29 I THINK PEOPLE REALLY ENJOY THE PROCESS OF ENGAGING WITH OTHER SMART PEOPLE AND A DIALOGUE THAT'S PRODUCTIVE AND BUILDING SOMETHING, SO YOU MAY HAVE A -- AN INTEREST IN SOME AREA.
00:41:40 LOTS OF PEOPLE REPORT THIS.
00:41:41 I'M INTERESTED IN BIRDS.
00:41:43 SO I WROTE THIS LITTLE ARTICLE AND IT CAME BACK THREE DAYS LATER AND IT GOT HUGE AND BIG AND ENTERING.
00:41:50 THERE'S A WHOLE GROUP -- INTERESTING.
00:41:53 THERE'S A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WRITE ARTICLES ABOUT TRAINS, THE HISTORY OF TRAINS IN UNBELIEVABLE DETAME.
00:42:01 I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT TRAINS AND I WAS SHOCKED TO FIND THIS.
00:42:05 THERE'S A LITTLE SUBCULTURE OF PEOPLE INTERESTED IN TRAINS.
00:42:09 THAT'S THE TYPE OF PEOPLE.
00:42:11 SO THERE'S THE IMMEDIATE FUN OF THE ARE PROCESS BUT THEN THERE'S A BIGGER PICTURE THING.
00:42:17 THE PEOPLE FEEL IT'S FREELY LICENSED, MEANING ANYBODY CAN COPY, REDISTRIBUTE, MODIFY, COMMERCIALLY, NONCOMMERCIALLY, YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU LIKE WITH OUR WORK.
00:42:28 PEOPLE REALLY FEEL THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
00:42:31 THAT THIS IDEA OF AN INFORMATION COMMONS IN AN ERA WHEN MOST OF THE COPYRIGHT DEBATE IS ABOUT KIDS STEALING MUSIC, RIGHT, THAT'S THE WAY IT'S USUALLY FRAMED.
00:42:43 BUT FOR US, THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF TREMENDOUS CULTURE AND SHARING ON THE INTERNET, IT'S NOT A CONCEPT OF CONSUMERS TRYING TO GET SOMETHING FOR FREE.
00:42:53 IN OUR CASE IT'S THE CONCEPT OF PRODUCERS, PEOPLE ACTUALLY CREATING SOMETHING TRYING TO USE -- TO SHARE.
00:42:59 THAT BIG-PICTURE VISION REALLY MOTIVATES PEOPLE.
00:43:03 COULD I TAKE A LOT OF MATERIAL ON ONE SUBJECT OFF WIKIPEDIA AND PUBLISH IT IN A BOOK AND NOT PAY ANY COPYRIGHT?
00:43:11 YEAH.
00:43:13 IS ANYBODY DOING THAT?
00:43:14 THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW SMALL PROJECTS.
00:43:17 THE ONE THING IS THE -- OUR NAME IS A TRADEMARK.
00:43:21 SO YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT -- YOU CAN'T JUST USE OUR LOGO AND PASS OFF YOUR WORK AS OURS.
00:43:28 A PROPER CREDIT -- YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE LICENSE, WHICH IS PRETTY EASY.
00:43:32 PEOPLE ARE PERFECTLY ABLE TO DO THAT.
00:43:34 THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY ENCOURAGE AND WE ACTUALLY ARE VERY EAGER TO SEE THAT SORT OF THING HAPPENING WITH EDUCATIONAL MATERIALS IN DEVELOPING WORLDS.
00:43:48 SO THE IDEA THAT SOME ENTREPRENEURIAL PUBLISHER IN INDIA WILL REALIZE THEY CAN PUBLISH A FULL ENCYCLOPEDIA FOR A FRACTION OF THE COST OF BRING TANYA.
00:44:04 THAT'S -- BRITANNIA, I WOULD BE EXCITED TO SEE THAT.
00:44:07 I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO KNOW THIS NAME BECAUSE HE'S OUTSPOKEN AGAINST WHAT YOU'RE GOING.
00:44:12 ROBERT MCHENDRY.
00:44:13 UH-HUH.
00:44:14 I'VE GOT AN ARTICLE FROM TECH CENTRAL STATION.
00:44:20 COPYRIGHT 2005 AND ACTUALLY THIS WAS WRITTEN NOVEMBER 15, 2004.
00:44:24 RIGHT.
00:44:25 LAST SENTENCE -- LAST PARAGRAPH.
00:44:28 THE USER WHO VISITS WIKIPEDIA TO LEARN ABOUT SOME SUBJECT TO CONFIRM SOME MATTER IS IN A POSITION OF A VISITOR TO A PUBLIC REST ROOM.
00:44:37 I KNOW YOU'VE SEEN THAT MANY TIMES.
00:44:38 YEAH.
00:44:40 IT MAY BE OBVIOUSLY DIRTY SO HE KNOWS TO EXERCISE GREAT CARE OR IT MAY SEEM FAIRLY CLEAN SO HE MAY BE LULLED INTO A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.
00:44:50 WHAT HE CERTAINLY DOES NOT KNOW IS WHO HAS USED THE FACILITIES BEFORE HIM.
00:44:55 HE'S NOT VERY HAPPY WITH YOU, MR. MCHENDRY.
00:44:58 I HAD DINNER WITH BOB AFTER HE WROTE THIS ARTICLE AND HE'S A VERY THOUGHTFUL, NICE GUY SO I -- I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW IF HE REGRETS THIS INFLAMMATORY RHETORIC.
00:45:10 IF NOT, HE'S SORT OF GOTTEN FAMOUS AS THE PUBLIC TOILET GUY.
00:45:15 SO -- BUT THE ULTIMATE POINT THERE IS AN INTERESTING POINT BUT ONE THAT I FEEL IS INVALID ATED BY THE FACT THAT -- INVAL DATED BY THE FACT THAT THERE IS A COMMUNITY.
00:45:26 AND I SUPPOSE IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT A PUBLIC REST ROOM, YOU CAN.
00:45:30 BUT IT'S A PUBLIC REST ROOM THAT'S KEPT CLEAN FOR THE MOST PART AND MOST PEOPLE ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GO INTO, YOU KNOW, THE FOUR SEASONS HOTEL AND USE THE PUBLIC REST ROOM BECAUSE IT'S CARED FOR BY PEOPLE.
00:45:44 SO THE ANALOGY IS CUTE, BUT STRAINED, I THINK.
00:45:51 IF SUBSTANTIVE CRITICISMS ARE THINGS THAT -- YEAH, I MEAN, ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT WIKIPEDIA IS THAT ALTHOUGH THE AVERAGE QUALITY ARTICLES IS VERY, VERY HIGH, PEOPLE USE WIKIPEDIA, YOU CAN SAY, THIS IS ACTUALLY -- IT'S A MIRACLE THAT IT WORKS AT ALL.
00:46:06 BUT THE FACT THAT IT'S PRETTY DARN GOOD IS REALLY INTERESTING.
00:46:09 BUT IT IS TRUE.
00:46:10 ANY ARTICLE THAT YOU GO TO MAY HAVE BEEN EDITED JUST FIVE MINUTES AGO AND DESTROYED.
00:46:16 AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE CONSTANTLY STUDYING WITHIN THE K3450U7B9 IS HOW DO -- COMMUNITY, THAT IS, HOW DO WE -- PARTICULARLY WHEN WE THINK ABOUT GOING INTO CD-ROM OR PRINT, WHICH IS REALLY NECESSARY FOR OUR GOALS WITH RESPECT TO DIGITAL DIVIDE AND -- IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, HOW DO WE IDENTIFY PARTICULAR VERSIONS OF ARTICLES THAT WE CAN SAY, WELL, THIS IS THE ONE -- THIS IS THE CLEAN ONE AND THIS, WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT.
00:46:43 SO THAT'S AN ONGOING DISCUSSION IN THE COMMUNITY, HOW DO WE GET FROM OUR ALWAYS IN PROGRESS, ALWAYS EDITED SITE TO A 1.0 STABLE VERSION THAT WE CAN SAY THESE ARE ARTICLES THAT HAVE BEEN VETTED BY THE COMMUNITY AND THAT WE FEEL ARE GOOD ENOUGH IN SOME SENSE, AND THAT'S -- OUR GOAL HAS ALWAYS BEEN BRITANNICA OR BETTER [INAUDIBLE].
00:47:12 I USED TO THINK SO.
00:47:13 I DON'T KNOW.
00:47:15 BUT IN DETERMINING -- WIKIPEDIA IS BIG IN GERMANY.
00:47:20 THE READERSHIP IS ABOUT 50% HIGHER PER CAPITA IN GERMAN SPEAKING COUNTRIES THAN ENGLISH SPEAKING COUNTRIES.
00:47:31 BALLOT HOUSE IS THE PUBLISHER AND -- BLOCK HOUSE IS THE PUBLISHER AND THEY'RE SALES ARE UP.
00:47:38 I THINK THERE'S -- THERE ENDS UP BEING SOME COMPLEMENTRY TO IT.
00:47:48 PEOPLE SAY WHO NEEDS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA, YOU CAN LOOK IN GOOGLE.
00:47:52 WIKIPEDIA HELPS PEOPLE TO REMEMBER THAT, HEY, THERE IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING TO HAVING A GROUP OF PEOPLE EDIT AND MONITOR AND PUT A LEVEL OF TRUST TO INFORMATION.
00:48:03 SO THAT MAKES IT MORE APPEALING, MAKES WIKIPEDIA MORE APPEALING. IT'S HARD TO SAY.
00:48:08 YOU'RE GOING TO RECOGNIZE THIS ALSO.
00:48:10 UH-HUH.
00:48:12 I STOPPED PARTICIPATING IN WIKIPEDIA WHEN FUNDING FOR MY POSITION RAN OUT.
00:48:18 THAT DOES NOT MEAN I'M MERCENARYY.
00:48:19 I MIGHT HAVE CONTINUED TO PARTICIPATE WERE IT NOT FOR A CERTAIN POISONOUS ATMOSPHERE IN THE COMPANY.
00:48:27 LARRY SANGER.
00:48:29 WHO WAS THAT?
00:48:32 LARRY WAS EDITOR IN CHIEF OF PRIOR PROJECT AND WAS THE FIRST EDITOR IN CHIEF AT WIKIPEDIA.
00:48:40 AND HE WAS NEVER COMFORTABLE WITH THE VERY OPEN SOCIAL MODEL.
00:48:51 HE COMES TO COME FROM MORE OF A THOUGHT OF VETTED EXPERTS REVIEWING CONTEND.
00:48:59 THAT'S ESSENTIALLY A FILL PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE.
00:49:04 HE CALLS YOU AN ANTI-ELITIST.
00:49:06 YES.
00:49:09 I FEEL IN MY OWN WAY I'M MUCH MORE ELITIST THAN LARRY.
00:49:13 BUT IT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN -- IT'S PERHAPS ANTI-CREDENTIALIST.
00:49:18 TO ME, THE KEY THING IS GETTING IT RIGHT.
00:49:21 IF A PERSON'S REALLY SMART AND THEY'RE DOING FANTASTIC WORK, I DON'T CARE IF THEY'RE A HIGH SCHOOL KID OR A HARVARD PROFESSOR.
00:49:29 IT'S THE WORK THAT MATTERS.
00:49:30 YOU CAN'T COAST ON YOUR CREDENTIALS IN WIKIPEDIA.
00:49:34 YOU HAVE TO ENTER THE MARKETPLACE WITH IDEAS AND ENGAGE WITH PEOPLE.
00:49:39 I FEEL LIKE HIS VIEWS ON THE SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT ARE A BIT OUTDATED.
00:49:44 HE HASN'T BEEN IN THE PROJECT FOR QUITE SOME TIME, SO -- HOW LONG WAS HE THERE?
00:49:50 I THINK HE WAS THERE FOR THE FIRST YEAR-ISH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
00:50:00 NEWPEDIA WAS WHAT?
00:50:01 WHAT WE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND AT THAT TIME IS HOW TO BUILD A COMMUNITY AND HOW TO EMPOWER A COMMUNITY TO DO GOOD WORK.
00:50:09 A LOT OF PEOPLE REALLY INTERESTED IN THE PROJECT BECAUSE THE VISION OF A FREE ENCYCLOPEDIA IN A LOT OF LANGUAGES IS APPEALING TO A LOT OF SMART PEOPLE.
00:50:22 BUT OUR SOFTWARE WAS A TRADITIONALLY DESIGNED REVIEW PROCESS.
00:50:26 YOU HAD TO SUBMIT YOUR ARTICLE AND IT WAS REVIEWED BY PROFESSORS.
00:50:30 IT WAS REALLY NOT MUCH FUN AND I KNEW IT WASN'T GOING TO WORK WHEN I PERSONALLY SAT DOWN TO WRITE AN ARTICLE ABOUT ROBERT MERITON.
00:50:41 I KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THIS AND I SAT DOWN TO WRITE THE ARTICLE AND I FELT LIKE I WAS BACK IN ARE GRADUATE SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING TO GIVE MY PAPER TO PROFESSORS TO REVIEW.
00:50:51 I WAS GOING TO GET COMMENTS ON -- I MIGHT GET A C OR A B GRADE OR SOMETHING.
00:50:57 IT WAS A DIFFERENT FEEL FROM WIKIPEDIA WHERE YOU JUST PLUNGE IN.
00:51:01 IF IT ISN'T THAT GREAT, THAT'S FINE.
00:51:03 SOMEBODY ELSE WILL PICK IT UP AND TAKE IT ON.
00:51:06 IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A FULL ARTICLE.
00:51:08 YOU CAN JUST WRITE ONE PARAGRAPH.
00:51:11 YOU START OFF -- IN FRENCH WIKIPEDIA THEY COME UP WITH THE PHRASE PIRANHA EFFECT.
00:51:19 YOU START AN ARTICLE AND IT'S NOT QUITE GOOD ENOUGH AND PEOPLE PICK AT IT AND IT'S A FEEDING FRENZY AND ARTICLES GROW.
00:51:30 NEWPEDIA, WE WORKED HARD AND HAD A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE WORKING.
00:51:34 WE GOT VERY, VERY LITTLE DONE.
00:51:37 WE STARTED LOOKING AROUND AND FOUND THE WIKI SOFTWARE AND WE SAID WE'LL PUT IT UP ON THE WEB AND INVITE THE NEWPEDIA VOLUNTEERS -- WE SAID, WELL, LET'S PUT IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.
00:51:58 WIKIPEDIA IS A GOOD NAME.
00:52:00 WIKI WIKI IS A HAWAIIAN WORD FOR QUICK OR SPEEDY?
00:52:03 THAT'S RIGHT.
00:52:05 WHAT STORY IS IT -- I'M PROBABLY NOT ANNOUNCING IT RIGHT.
00:52:10 BOMUS?
00:52:11 UH-HUH.
00:52:16 BOMUS.COM DIRTY PICTURES?
00:52:17 THAT'S A LITTLE EXAGGERATION.
00:52:19 YOU STARTED THIS?
00:52:21 YEAH, YEAH.
00:52:22 YEARS AGO.
00:52:23 I'M NOT INVOLVED AT ALL.
00:52:25 WHAT'S THE DIRTY PICTURE THING?
00:52:28 IT'S A SEARCH ENGINE SO THERE'S ALL KIND OF CONTENT ON IT.
00:52:35 BOMUS HAD A CONTENT SIMILAR TO "MAXIM" MAGAZINE.
00:52:39 THE STORY IS MUCH EXAGGERATED BY -- THROUGH HISTORY. SO -- SO -- SOMETHING I STRUGGLE WITH CONSTANTLY.
00:52:47 SOMEBODY SAID YOU DROVE A HYUNDAI BUT THERE WAS A PARENTHESES AROUND IT. NO.
00:52:52 HE ACTUALLY HAS A FERRARI.
00:52:53 I DO ACTUALLY HAVE A FERRARI.
00:52:57 IT'S -- IT DOESN'T WORK AT THE MOMENT AND MY FERRARI COST LESS THAN MOST PEOPLE'S S.U.V.'S.
00:53:02 WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH ALL THIS?
00:53:06 WHAT'S YOUR REAL GOAL IN THIS?
00:53:07 YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE WORLD?
00:53:08 YEAH, YEAH.
00:53:09 I THINK THERE'S A FEW THINGS THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME.
00:53:17 ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT PEOPLE -- PEOPLE NEED TO HAVE ACCESS TO FUNDAMENTAL NEUTRAL INFORMATION TO EMPOWER THEM TO MAKE BETTER DECISIONS POLITICALLY, IN THEIR OWN PERSONAL LIVES, AND THE WORLD IS -- THE AMOUNT OF UNREASON IN THE WORLD IS STAGGERING.
00:53:40 AND TO ME, ONE OF THE AREAS THAT I'M VERY, VERY INTERESTED IN IS GETTING INFORMATION OUT IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, GROWING THOSE LANGUAGE WIKIPEDIAS WHICH ARE NOW QUITE SMALL.
00:53:56 A BIG FOCUS FOR ME MOVING FORWARD, ENGLISH AND GERMAN AND JAPANESE AND FRENCH, THESE LANGUAGES ARE DOING FINE.
00:54:03 WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN IS HINDI, BENGALI, ARABIC.
00:54:11 THEY EXIST BUT THEY'RE QUITE SMALL AND THEY NEED PROMOTION AND GROWTH.
00:54:16 DOES YOUR FOUNDATION HAVE TO BUY THE SERVERS IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT WORK?
00:54:21 YEAH, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY A SERVER ISSUE.
00:54:24 PEOPLE CAN ACCESS THE INTERNET FROM ANYWHERE.
00:54:26 IT'S REALLY A MATTER OF FINDING MORE GOOD PEOPLE TO BE INVOLVED, GETTING PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT IT.
00:54:32 YOU KNOW, AS I LOOK INTO IT, SOME OF THE PROBLEMS ARE PROBLEMS THAT ARE BEYOND THE SCOPE OF OUR WORK, SO, IF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET THEY CAN'T WORK ON WIKIPEDIA AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING I CAN SOLVE.
00:54:45 WE TRACE THE IRAN CONNECTION AT AGE 20 TO TODAY HAVING A POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY THAT YOU CAN LABEL?
00:54:50 YEAH, YEAH.
00:54:54 I MEAN, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP SEPARATE -- AND I'M VERY METICULOUS ABOUT THIS -- KEEPING SEPARATE MY PERSONAL POLITICAL VIEWS SEPARATE FROM THE PROJECT.
00:55:03 THE PROJECT IS POLITICALLY NEUTRAL.
00:55:15 ONE OF THE REASONS I ALMOST NEVER EDIT AT ALL.
00:55:18 IN THE VERY BEGINNING IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAT I DIDN'T EDIT.
00:55:22 I DIDN'T WANT TO REFLECT THAT THIS WAS SUPPOSE TO REFLECT MY VIEW OF THE WORLD.
00:55:26 I DON'T GET INVOLVED IN EDITTING AND CONTENT DISPUTES OTHER THAN AT A VERY MINIMAL LEVEL.
00:55:33 WHAT'S YOUR POLITICS?
00:55:35 THE CATEGORY PEOPLE WOULD FIT ME IN THAT'S MOST ACCESSIBLE WOULD BE LIBERTARIAN BUT I DON'T LIKE THAT TERM.
00:55:43 YOU DON'T BELONG TO THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY?
00:55:46 NO, NO.
00:55:48 I THINK THEY'RE LUNATICS.
00:55:50 YOU BELONG TO THE DEMOCRATIC OR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?
00:55:53 NO, NO.
00:55:54 THEY'RE NOT LUNATICS BUT I CAN'T SUPPORT IN OF THEIR POLICIES.
00:55:57 WHAT DO YOU FEEL MOST STRONGLY ABOUT IN POLITICS?
00:56:03 FREEDOM, LIBERTY.
00:56:04 BASICALLY HUMAN RIGHTS.
00:56:08 THE IDEA OF DEALING WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN A MANNER THAT IS NOT INITIATING FORCE AGAINST THEM IS CRITICAL TO ME.
00:56:17 DEALING WITH PEOPLE WITH REASON RATHER THAN FORCE IS CORE.
00:56:21 AT WHAT POINT IN YOUR LIFE, IF YOU COULD PIN IT ON THE MAP, DID IT ALL START, THAT KIND OF THINKING AND WHY?
00:56:28 I HAVE NO IDEA.
00:56:31 I THINK MAYBE EVEN AS A CHILD, WE -- MY MOTHER AND GRANDMOTHER HAD THIS SMALL PRIVATE SCHOOL AND ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT THINGS FOR THEM WAS DEALING WITH THE GOVERNMENT, WHO YOU KNOW, IT WAS DEMON STRABBLE THAT KIDS AT THE SCHOOL WERE OFTEN -- DEMONSTRATE STRAIGHTABLE THAT KIDS AT THE SCHOOL WERE -- KIDS WHO WERE FAILING IN THE SCHOOLS THAT WERE A YEAR BEHIND.
00:56:59 THERE WAS CONSTANT INTERFERENCE AND BUREAUCRACY AND VERY SORT OF SNOBBY PEOPLE WHO CAME OUT AND DIDN'T CARE FOR THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER AND OUR BOOKS WEREN'T NEW ENOUGH AND THINGS LIKE THIS.
00:57:13 FROM A VERY EARLY AGE, I THOUGHT IT'S NO SIMPLE ANSWER TO SAY THE GOVERNMENT'S GOING TO TAKE CARE OF SOMETHING.
00:57:18 WHAT'S YOUR MOM'S NAME?
00:57:19 DOST.
00:57:21 WHAT'S YOUR GRAND -- DORIS.
00:57:24 WHAT'S YOUR GRANDMOTHER'S NAME?
00:57:26 EMMA.
00:57:27 IS SHE ALIVE?
00:57:28 NO.
00:57:31 SHE PASSED AWAY SOMETIME AGO.
00:57:32 WE'RE OUT OF TIME.
00:57:34 THANK YOU.
00:57:50 FOR A COPY ON D.V.D, CALL 1-877-6626-7226.
00:57:52 FOR FREE TRANSCRIPTS OR TO LEARN MORE ABOUT Q & A, VISIT US AT Q & A.ORG.
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