Not censored/IRC chat
Probably January 2012
[10:31]natbrown has joined #wikimedia-commons
[10:33] <natbrown> Hi, I found some very unpleasant photos http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Masturbation_techniques_-_Circumcision_experience_%28Beschneidungs-Erfahrung%29.jpg
[10:33] <natbrown> There is a video attached as well
[10:33] <Funfood> What is your problem with these files?
[10:34] <natbrown> There is a whole category http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Male_masturbation
[10:34] <Funfood> there it belongs to, yes
[10:34] <natbrown> I am a woman. I find this very offencive. I don't want to see it.
[10:35] <Funfood> you don't need to open them, neither the files or the category
[10:35] <natbrown> Should this be in Wikipedia? Aren't there enough sites dedicated to these techniques?
[10:35] <Nickname1> you'll get over it
[10:36] <Funfood> commons is not wikipedia, but there are, of course a lot of discussions about those files
[10:36] <natbrown> I found them by searching for "roll over
[10:36] <Funfood> I for my part don't think that human body parts are disgusting somehow
[10:37] <Funfood> but your opinion may vary
[10:37] <natbrown> Very often I work with my granddaughter by my site. She is 8 now. Would you like your daughter or your mother to see those files?
[10:38] <Funfood> If they appear by accident on the screen, it is a good time to explain children something about the internet
[10:38] <Funfood> and my mother has surely seen a penis before ;)
[10:39] <natbrown> It is pornography http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography
[10:39] <natbrown> There should be no pornography on Wikimedia. It isn't educational.
[10:40] <Funfood> pornography
[10:40] <AsimovBot> [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/pornography
[10:40] <Funfood> the first lines are the important ones ;)
[10:41] <natbrown> There is a page there about child pornography as well. Thank God no pictures!
[10:41] <Funfood> they would be deleted at once and the uploaders will have a hard time afterwards
[10:41] <natbrown> The children are exploited all around the world.
[10:45] <Funfood> nudity
[10:45] <AsimovBot> [2] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/nudity
[10:47] <natbrown> I was shocked to discover those files. I thought that Wikimedia had no videos of mustrubation. What can I do?
[10:48] <natbrown> They are very offencive to any woman. I feel like someone has been mustubating in front of me.
[10:49] <Funfood> you can do what everybody can do: start a deletion request fpr the file. But you can be shure it will be rejected.
[10:50] <natbrown> I can't believe that you all have no those feelings. Are you all frigthen that if you lose those files peple wouldn't know where to find them?
[10:50] <Funfood> Sexual content does not mean it is bad
[10:51] == Snowolf_ [snowolf@wikimedia/Snowolf] has joined #wikimedia-commons
[10:53] <natbrown> I will start a page on a facebook "Stop pornography on Wikipedia". The fact that it's only on wikimedia has no relevance. All files from wikimedia can be added with one click to Wikipedia. Lots of people donated to Wikipedia. Did they all know that there are such files there?
[10:54] <Nickname1> okay have fun
[10:54] <Funfood> by creating this facebook page you can be sure that more people will come to commons just to see these files :)
[10:55] <natbrown> Do you really think that this is what the world need?
[10:57] <Funfood> I think that the world needs less censorship and more open minded people
[11:01] <Snowolf> natbrown: Wikipedia is not censored. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_disclaimer for the English Wikipedia's Content Disclaimer, as an example. See also http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:CENSORSHIP#Censorship for some idea of what is and isn't within the scope of Wikimedia Commons
[11:01] <natbrown> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx7SIDz3M5Y They say that Wikipedia is doing what they can to delete phorn. The video that is attached is porn.
[11:04] <natbrown> If I meet some man that I don't know they don't do those things in front of me. Why they should do it online? Why you should provide a space for it? Is it where the donations are going?
[11:07] <Funfood> so why just don't delete the whole internet? There's porn in it (I heard)
[11:07] <Snowolf> Oh the Young Turks; that is from over a year ago, and child pornography is taken seriously. But otherwise the projects are not censored.
[11:08] <Funfood> the file you linked has definitively educational content, even if it is sexual content
[11:10] <natbrown> Funfood: are you admin? For how many years are you on mediawiki?
[11:10] <Snowolf> Different things may be offensive to different people, in different countries. There is no worldwide sensitivity on things, and even if there was, who would have ot make the call. It just doesn't work that way, Wikimedia strives not to be censored as much as possible.
[11:10] <Funfood> no, I am no admin and I am here for just some months
[11:11] <natbrown> Are there any admins here?
[11:11] <Funfood> but I don't know how this should influence my opinion
[11:11] <Snowolf> There are some people to which the existence of images depicting Prophet Muhammad is offensive, as you're probably aware; to others, sexually explicit images are a problem.
[11:13] <Snowolf> In the end, you end up making everybody unhappy. Now I am sorry that an image like that bothered you, each one of us has a different sensitivity, and there may be/is content on Wikimedia projects I might find objectionable too
[11:14] <Snowolf> But we don't censor things. Could things be improved? Always. Is it easy? No, striving a balance between removing images of no education value (because Wikimedia Commons is not a free host for images akin to imageshack and the like) and censorship of useful images is not easy, but it is important to err on the side of caution.
[11:15] <Funfood> well said
[11:15] <Snowolf> Some user more involved than me in the Commons project could give you a better answer in any case, just trying to offer my perspective and understanding of it.
[11:17] <natbrown> If you have been on this irc for some time, they you should know the feelings of other users of this channel. Does everyone think so?
[11:18] <Snowolf> natbrown: I have been on irc for some years yes, but other users could tell you better than me the consensus onwiki, which is where it really matters. IRC is but a small spectrum of the opinions onwiki discussion can offer. I don't think it is ever the case that everybody thinks one way, once enough persons are involved
[11:19] <Snowolf> This case is no different
[11:19] <natbrown> Where do I find them?
[11:19] <Snowolf> nadar: I will try and look for the discussion that happened
[11:20] <natbrown> Thanks.
[11:20] <Snowolf> natbrown: I believe the most recent proposal on this matter was the https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image_filter_referendum
[11:21] <Snowolf> the results of it are on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image_filter_referendum/Results/en
[11:21] <Snowolf> This was a Wikimedia-wide proposal
[11:21] <Snowolf> But this was just a filter to hide such content from view
[11:21] <Funfood> oh the link I gave was wrong, i meant this http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Nudity
[11:23] <Snowolf> natbrown: that page Funfood just linked details how Wikimedia Commons deals with nudity and sexually explicit images and offers links to both policies and two proposed guidelines that failed, where you can find the discussion
[11:31] <natbrown> I know of the schools that allow children to go to Wikipedia, I don't think that they know of those files. They are very damaging to the kids. They don't need to see it.
[11:33] <Funfood> in which way damaging?
[11:37] <Nickname1> because the human body is sinful and if they see pictures of it they'll go to hell
[11:38] <Funfood> Ah, heard of this concept
[11:46] <natbrown> Is there anyone there who thinks the same as me?
[11:47] <natbrown> Am I the only one who is horrified?
[12:00] <natbrown> OK, it looks there is no one to answer :( I have opened the page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-pornography-on-Wikipedia/307245972661745?sk=wall there is a photo of my granddaughter there. I am doing it for her.
[12:01] <natbrown> I will copy and paste this conversation, so people know why I have opened the group.
[12:02] <natbrown> !admin@commons
[12:03] <Snowolf> You cannot copypaste this conversation without the permission of all involved
[12:03] <Snowolf> Otherwise you would be in violation of copyright.
[12:03] <Snowolf> Personally, I have no issues with what I said being reproduced.
[12:04] <natbrown> I don't care, I feel like my soul is being torn apart. Do you know the feeling?
[12:05] <natbrown> I do it and those who want can object it. I will answer them for what I have done.
[12:07] <natbrown> I will delete ip addresses to keep people privacy.
[12:08] <Snowolf> You are free to reproduce all that I've said, however you really shouldn't reproduce what other have said without their permission. It is automatically copyrighted in a good chunk of countries, including the United States
[12:10] <Snowolf> In any case, you are now aware of the issue. Please try to keep in mind that each of us has a point of view, and sometimes we should take a step back and try to see everybody else's
[12:10] <nickname2> it's not really a copyright issue
[12:10] <Snowolf> Sensibilities are really different in different parts of the world
[12:10] <nickname2> but rather a privacy issue
[12:10] <nickname2> even if the channel is public, the channels logs are not ought to be public
[12:11] <Snowolf> nickname2: that's another matter, which stems from freenode and channel rules
[12:11] <Snowolf> In any case, I feel I've tried to explain what I could :)
[12:14] <natbrown> Can you refer me to the policy that I can't make this conversation public?
[12:17] <natbrown> Funfood: Are you against of what being said to be reproduces publicly?
[12:18] <natbrown> Snowolf: Do you want me to change your nickname?
[12:19] <Snowolf> natbrown: as I stated before, I have no issues with what I said being reproduced at all.
[12:19] <natbrown> Shall I leave you name as Snowolf:
[12:20] <Snowolf> Sure :)
[12:20] <Snowolf> http://blog.freenode.net/2007/12/blogging-about-logging/ this is some detail on the issues of releasing logs, but in any case I would just ask Funfood about it
[12:21] <natbrown> I can change it. I only want to explain the issue to other people. I don't need to have name. Fundood is not answering.
[12:26] <natbrown> Snowolf: Thank you for allowing to publish the conversation.
[12:27] <Funfood> I have no problems if you let my opinions there
[12:31] <natbrown> Funfood: Thanks. I have to open the page on Facebook since I can't find anyone who supports my opinion here. I think that the matter is very important for general public.
